Author Topic: Other EasyGameStation games?  (Read 4861 times)

DarkAgent

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Other EasyGameStation games?
« on: October 01, 2010, 06:17:54 PM »
Do you guys have your eye on other EGS games? I know there's that SRPG Territoire. And Chantelise supposedly already has an english option in that game so there's probably no need to localize it. But there's two other games that might be interesting:

First is Tokkyu Tenshi (Angel Express, I think), which looks like a race-platformer type of game. But it's oozing with cuteness all over, like Recettear, so I don't know how you feel about that.

Official Site: http://egs.cug.net/circle/tokkyu/index.html
Gameplay vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjK9mS_AkvM

The second is Duo Princess, a doujin sequel to Threads of Fate (Dew Prism in Japan). It is an action-rpg just like the original game. Now this is one I'm more interested in. I don't know if it's been fan translated, but if not it could be something to look into someday.

Official Site: http://egs-soft.info/product/duoprincess/duopri.html
Gameplay vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDplcwrdbaw


The last known EGS game is Gunners Heart, though I think you said you'd rather Rockin' Android handle the shootins.

QC

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Re: Other EasyGameStation games?
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2010, 06:36:46 PM »
Having played Threads of Fate (LONG ago), Duo Princess has been something of interest to me since I learned of it.

The racing game looks like it could be simple enough, as it probably wouldn't be very text-heavy. But I can't say for sure.

My vote goes for both (and, really, everything EGS has done that's feasible for CF), but - even though Duo Princess is much older - that is my first vote.

Even above newer stuff like Chantelise and Territorire. Though those would be right after it (in that order).

</my2pix>

BlondRobin

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Re: Other EasyGameStation games?
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2010, 09:24:43 AM »
Duo Princess ain't happening, guys. It's a nice thought, and I like Threads of Fate too, but remember that we're not in Japan, we can't use materials that are someone else's copyright. If Squeenix wants to go "Oh hey sure here have access to the Dewprism/Threads of Fate copyrights!", then sure, we'll certainly think hard about it.

However, that is literally as likely as Earth spontaneously obtaining a second moon.

QC

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Re: Other EasyGameStation games?
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2010, 11:40:38 AM »
The thing is I kind of figured Square-Enix wouldn't care, give that Threads of Fate is like their least known game ever.

Then again, I'm not too familiar with the EXACT details of how copyrights work. "Duo Princess" isn't Threads of Fate. And Threads of Fate (or Dewprism) is what Square-Enix holds the copyright on. If another form of media is made using a few characters from Threads of Fate (like an anime, perhaps?), is only Square-Enix allowed to do anything with it?

I'm pretty sure I've seen anime based on games that weren't held by the original game copyright holder. But if the above is true, then I guess permission would need to have been granted...

And I don't really know how Japan is different, either...

tl;dr: F***in' copyrights, how do they work?

BlondRobin

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Re: Other EasyGameStation games?
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2010, 03:27:45 PM »
The thing is I kind of figured Square-Enix wouldn't care, give that Threads of Fate is like their least known game ever.

Then again, I'm not too familiar with the EXACT details of how copyrights work. "Duo Princess" isn't Threads of Fate. And Threads of Fate (or Dewprism) is what Square-Enix holds the copyright on. If another form of media is made using a few characters from Threads of Fate (like an anime, perhaps?), is only Square-Enix allowed to do anything with it?

I'm pretty sure I've seen anime based on games that weren't held by the original game copyright holder. But if the above is true, then I guess permission would need to have been granted...

And I don't really know how Japan is different, either...

tl;dr: F***in' copyrights, how do they work?

Licensing. You set up a contract, say "hey you can use our (copyrighted materials) and we get cash moneys." The big part is Squeenix will want some serious cash moneys, if they're even willing to license it. For an anime production studio, that's possible. For two guys running an indie startup, it means Duo Princess would probably be a huge loss for everyone involved except the distributors.

Y'see, the problem is in Japan, copyrights are held no matter what. If someone else does something with your characters... okay, it doesn't affect your copyright. You can choose to tell them 'hey, cut me in or cut it out' or whatever, or just say nothing. It has no effect on your copyright.

In America, if you don't contest any unauthorized uses of your copyrights, (and this is just my understanding) you lose the right to equitable returns; in other words, your right to be paid for said materials. In essence, if you have a copyright, you either defend it or lose it.

The result is that in America you can't 'squat' a copyright unless you're willing to defend it against any and all comers- but in return, you can't let anyone use your copyright without ridiculous licensing agreements. In terms of them 'not being the same game,' they use the same copyrighted characters, settings, etc. etc. etc. Copyrights aren't just on games.

This is why doujin games and other works can and do freely use copyrighted materials and sell them publicly in storefronts. This is why Super Robot Wars can exist and be sold; Banpresto (Namco now?) pays small royalties to all the associated companies. They don't hold a license to use said characters as they please, but there's an unspoken agreement.

QC

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Re: Other EasyGameStation games?
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2010, 04:02:09 PM »
Y'see, the problem is in Japan, copyrights are held no matter what. If someone else does something with your characters... okay, it doesn't affect your copyright. You can choose to tell them 'hey, cut me in or cut it out' or whatever, or just say nothing. It has no effect on your copyright.
This is pretty much what I thought of copyrights in general. I had no idea the American copyright system was so... different. The Japanese system sounds pretty good.

I could elaborate on how misguided my interpretation of the American copyright system was, but the fact is that it was wrong. So... yeah.

That's lame. Oh well. EGS has some original stuff too, which looks good.

DarkAgent

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Re: Other EasyGameStation games?
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2010, 06:55:27 PM »
Oh poo. Oh well. EGS still has other games.

joshrl

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Re: Other EasyGameStation games?
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2010, 07:42:09 PM »
Oh poo. Oh well. EGS still has other games.

Indeed they do.  :)
TG: and a ruined cake! it was going 2 be so delish, but no
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coolnspicy

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Re: Other EasyGameStation games?
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2010, 02:41:50 AM »
In America, if you don't contest any unauthorized uses of your copyrights, (and this is just my understanding) you lose the right to equitable returns; in other words, your right to be paid for said materials. In essence, if you have a copyright, you either defend it or lose it.

OK, this is going to be a rather speculative argument, but I do not think that this is at all the case. As far as I'm aware, this type of thing only matters for trademarks; even patents are allowed to go uncontested without losing them. Big companies would have you believe otherwise so that they have an excuse to sue, but I think a more accurate statement (corrected for British English, ho ho ho) is "In the USA, if you don't contest any unauthorised uses of your copyrights, you lose the much of the possibility of equitable returns; in other words, you are unlikely to get paid for said materials."

It is my impression that most copyright lawsuits are filed because they can. The difference seems to be that in Japan, they have become accustomed to the fact that doujin works and the like are essentially a free avenue of marketting -- as the doujin stuff becomes more popular, they will see the sales on official stuff rise alongside (hard to prove this stuff, though!). There doesn't seem to be any financial benefit at all in, say, Games Workshop shutting down fan sites -- they do it because they want to retain control. They think they should be the only people with the right to run a site about their games (and make any associated money) and want to leave that possibility open for the future.

They can't both be right; it's either beneficial to sue or beneficial to ignore. Popularity of viral videos, the emergence of anime into the US market (quite probably due to fan subs), and so-on seems to indicate that the free publicity argument holds at least some water.

I should note that lawsuits have been filed over doujin stuff in Japan -- Nintendo filed suit over Pokemon H-doujinshi some time ago, for instance.

The result is that in America you can't 'squat' a copyright unless you're willing to defend it against any and all comers- but in return, you can't let anyone use your copyright without ridiculous licensing agreements. In terms of them 'not being the same game,' they use the same copyrighted characters, settings, etc. etc. etc. Copyrights aren't just on games.

Even the above being the case, there is nothing to stop them licensing the material at a sensible price, or for free. They may hesitate because it gives future comers a good bargaining point, but if you assume the possibility of future comers is low (as with an obscure game like the aforementioned one), that point is moot.

Apparently US case law says that characters are awarded copyright protection. This seems wrong to me, but I guess that's just the way copyright law is. I'm not sure you can get copyright on a general setting or plot element, though -- that seems to be a bit too broad. Music remixes have a well-established system of forced-licensing for a small cost (which may or may not apply to use in games but I don't see why a game is different to a CD), but if the music is not a re-performance, you have to arrange a license manually.


Anyway, the depressing thing is that BlondRobin is probably correct -- while such games will stand in Japan, they will almost certainly get litigated in the US. Not only that, but there will likely be a cascade litigation into Japan which will hurt the Japanese developer. It's not a can of worms anyone really wants to open, and one that should probably stay shut at least until the internet revolutionaries have burned the old systems to the ground. Or something.

QC

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Re: Other EasyGameStation games?
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2010, 11:52:41 AM »
Very sad. I'm quite interested to find out what happens with the two princesses in that game. I remember being very fond of Mint. But her sister was also neat, too...