Maybe there should be a Kickstarter for Fortune Summoners 2?

[Sabin Stargem]

With kickstarter being all the rage right now, maybe the guy behind Fortune Summoners could try the Kickstarter system with Carpe Fulgur's help?  I know at least of one platforming game called Valid Story that met an $18,000 goal, and it resembles Fortune Summoners in some ways.  If there is an Fortune Summoners II video and perhaps a copy of Fortune Summoners for the $5, $10 or $15 dollar tier, perhaps it might be possible to pull it off?

(Valdis Story seems like a good example to follow for promoting an anime-style platformer - like Fortune Summoners II.)
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/460275866/valdis-story-abyssal-city

[Mokinokaro]

From my understanding Fortune Summoners bombed pretty badly in Japan and basically forced Mel (Lizsoft) to get an office job.  He's not interested in game development.

[decat]

  check the kickstart website and donate a few project
there a few good indie

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1465600975/echoes-of-eternia-a-modern-take-on-a-classic-desig
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/stoic/the-banner-saga?ref=category
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1424869054/tortured-hearts-or-how-i-saved-the-universe-again?ref=category

[Sabin Stargem]

I am planning to donate into the Wasteland, Banner, and Valdis projects.  However, the reason why I posted the suggestion for a Fortune Summoner II kickstarter is because I want to see the series to continue.  I don't know whether or not the creator wanted to continue making games, but I was under the impression that having some way of measuring interest and recouping the costs of development would influence that kind of decision.  Remember, "Valdis Story: Abyssal City" has over $19,000 dollars in pledges right now - provided that there is a gameplay video of Fortune Summoners II, an explanation from Carpe Fulgur, and some decent awards for the various tiers, I do not see why FS2 can't be a reality.


As I understand it, Fortune Summoners in Japan came in two versions.  The basic Fortune Summoners version didn't come with the professional voice acting that was in the Deluxe version, which I believe was the most expensive part of things, due to licensing and such.   Which also was why we didn't get some of the extra content that was available in our version of Fortune Summoners.  Basically, the Deluxe version is what made Fortune Summons an failure in terms of money, as it was developed and sold some time after the original version.  While I am not sure about the state of things in Japan, shouldn't digital distribution go a long way to making it easier to sell a game in 2011 than it was in 2008, when FS Deluxe was being sold?


PS
Hm.  Thanks for the link to Echoes of Eternia, I am interested in helping my hobby. 

[SpaceDrake]

Ultimately, this would be up to Lizsoft, not us; I'd certainly like to see Fortune Summoners continue (seeing as how I really liked the game) but how Lizsoft would go about funding it is up to them. We've definitely earned Lizsoft a decent bit of money, and FS will keep earning as the year marches forward, but we can't really dictate "do a Kickstarter even if you're uncomfortable with it" or something.

And after something like Victor Ireland's misadventure with Kickstarter, I'm not sure a "localization kickstarter" could really work.

[TrevHead]

I think the main problem with kickstarters is that its mostly an American thing. FS funding is illegal here in the UK and given the culture of Japan I cant really see the idea catching on.

So that leaves western localisers (plus western arms of Altus, NISA etc). But the problem is that localisations are never a sure thing. For example Space Drake and the CP guys could put up a KS because they want to fund some obscure PC game... like, oh I dont know, Langrisser    but they havnt signed a deal with the license holders of which there might be more than one. In this case it'll be  Softpedia and Altus, what happens if the deal falls through? If the KS hit its target then CP will already have the money, do they have the means to give it back? If not then then do they reinvest it in another localisation? Give it to charity or blow it all on dolls and fuck pillows?

Even if CP approched the license holders beforehand they might not be willing to deal with a localiser that intends to use KS funding and even if all parties are willing something could throw a spanner in the works.

Personally I do think crowd funding is a fantastic concept and could work for localisations but KickStarter in its current form isnt the answer, even then it would take a hell of alot of faith and goodwill from the fans, which might be difficult now KS is becoming more popular and ppl start to see it as something akin to pre ordering and not what it really is. That said reputation goes along way, which can be easily broken if things go wrong

[Sabin Stargem]

Yeah, it is true that there are issues to be resolved and lessons learned about kickstarting.  In any case, I am not suggestion forcing Lizsoft into kickstarting.  Rather, I would like to have Lizsoft to figure out some means of bringing about Fortune Summoners II, be it through being promoted by Pepsiman, getting funded through an anime humble bundle, or a work of love half a decade from now.

[SilentCaay]

I'd love to see a FS 2, or rather, I'd be interested to check out anything else to come out of LizSoft. I wouldn't donate to a Kickstarter, though. I don't agree with the structure as I said in another thread. With Kickstarter, the devs will either break even if it fails or rake in the cash if it succeeds while their consumer base who donated will either lose out if it fails or break even if it succeeds. All the risk is on the consumer base. Any investment system should be set up like that of the stock market: if the project fails, both the devs and the investors lose out and if the project succeeds, both the devs and the investors profit. Even risk for all involved.

[LilithTome]

I literally flung out money to "Gaijinworks" just for promising to do the jRPG well. I have a PSP, and I like how handhelds have so many great jRPGs. But I could seriously care less about the PSP and physical distribution. My agenda is not keeping consoles or the PSP or physical media alive, but invading the PC platform with my favourite games. And favourite type of games. I like the PC platform, and if the many people who claim the PC platform is the future are right, then I want what I love a safe headstart. I've been following the doujin community for years and been playing games like Touhou religiously. I'd argue much more than the PSP or any other system.

Given that, that I've flung out so much money on one of the more shaky kickstarters, for a game that isn't among my most anticipated, on a system that isn't my preference, for a gaming medium I don't support, merely on the promise of more good jRPGs being localized, and a few typical backer bonuses.... just because I wanted an excuse to jump on the Kickstarter trend for something I love and literally shove my money in a companies face to show they how much I love something and want it supported...

Imagine how much I'd pour out my money at the chance of a Fortune Summoners sequel. I may have given over $200 to Gaijinworks, but I'd quickly shell out over $500 for another Fortune Summoners game. There's nothing iffy about a Kickstarter like this, and no reason for me to hold back. I too am afraid of Japanese folks not being interested in Kickstarter. Indeed it is an "American thing". But it's worked wonders when used properly.

Victor Ireland's venture was flawed in many ways to begin with. Many of us fans of jRPGs are also becoming surprisingly comfortable(it used to be called the "console style role playing game", after all) with PC gaming and digital distribution. The goal was set too high, it's best to aim high but set the goal low. And the genre of "jRPG" covered is incredibly niche. Basically being a "Wizardry roots" jRPG. Because as many of us know, Wizardry and Ultima games birthed the "jRPG". And while the vague promises of the Kickstarter are sure to draw some people in, the vagueness also probably hurts more than helps. Though even with that it's raised more than $50,000 so far. That's more than a lot of Kickstarters get by the end.

If the Kickstarter for something like Fortune Summoners II/2 was set to $100,000 or less, the promise was clear, a copy of the game if it succeeds, and a digital copy of the game offered at lower levels, it would be sure to succeed. Sadly, most of what Victor Ireland's Kickstarter has going for it is jRPG loving sweet talk. Something like this would contain more promise and surely be incredibly successful. Sweet talk is fine, but something like a Fortune Summoners II Kickstater would contain actual promise. Something that folks could get behind a lot easier.

I wouldn't want to you bend anyone's arm SpaceDrake, but I think that considering the Kickstarter platform of funding, would be a good idea. If you're interested in it, and the folks who's games you localize are interested in it, I sure as heck am interested in it. And I'm sure there are many others, too. Probably a greater collection of people and support than the folks who have taken part in the Class of Heroes Kickstarter.

I seriously type way, way too much.

tl;dr I think it's a fantastic idea and I and I think many others would gladly get behind it far more wholeheartedly than the Class of Heroes example.

Yeah, it is true that there are issues to be resolved and lessons learned about kickstarting.  In any case, I am not suggestion forcing Lizsoft into kickstarting.  Rather, I would like to have Lizsoft to figure out some means of bringing about Fortune Summoners II, be it through being promoted by Pepsiman, getting funded through an anime humble bundle, or a work of love half a decade from now.

Agreed. Victor Ireland went about it the wrong way. It is possible for Carpe Fulgar and co. to go about it the right way though, I believe. As to not alienate people and give their company a bad name when they're on such a good track already.

Either way, I'm dying for a Fortune Summoners sequel. However that might reasonably be facilitated, I'd be all for.

[TheSwordUser]

I think it's more about willingness to make the sequel, rather than funding.
MEL has a full-time job that I think won't want to quit for one reason or another (even if he would gain more money that way), or maybe he just doesn't feel like making games anymore. Remember that he did almost ALL the things in the game.

[Sabin Stargem]

My memory is a bit faulty on this, but I think it was Fortune Summoners Deluxe that sunk the possibility of a sequel, due to the professional voice acting that was contracted.  The original Fortune Summoners sold enough to be picked up by a small publisher called Jungle Japan, which required the game to be "sweetened" before being distributed.  That version of Fortune Summoners was the Deluxe edition, which bombed.

I think part of the reason is because while I do think that Fortune Summoners has potential to be a pretty good series, there are many flaws in the first game.  For example, no quick-travel system between towns is one of the bigger issues, as it introduces a fair bit of tedium.  That said, I think that a new Fortune Summoners game would be more successful, because digital distribution has become much more widespread and effective since 2008, and we now have companies like Carpe Fulgur to assist in the translation and PR.  Basically, conditions are better now than they were before.


KICKSTARTER EXPOSITION
In any case, if we hypothetically did a Fortune Summoners kickstarter with Carpe Fulgur's cooperation, the tiers would be the utmost importance.  People need to feel like that they are getting something out of an kickstarter, as one of the attractions of a kickstarter is the pre-orders and goodies.  Carpe Fulgur could offer its older games as part of the tiers, as sales would have tapered off among the bigger distribution channels.  As such, a kickstarter would make people unfamiliar with Carpe Fulgur but interested in Kickstarting to become aware of Carpe Fulgur.  This may possibly lead to more sales when future Carpe Fulgur games are released.

$5   - Receive a copy of Recettear*
$10 - Receive Fortune Summoners & Recettear
$15 - The above, plus Fortune Summoners II
$20 - The above, plus Chantelise
$40 - The above, plus Carpe Fulgur's mystery project.

*The flaws of Fortune Summoners I might turn people off from donating to higher tiers later, so having an excellent game like Recettear in the first tier would leave a good impression on folk.  Is this sound reasoning?  I feel kinda slimy for it, though.


Funding Goal & Stretch Goals:  The Shadowrun Returns kickstarter has two kinds of goals, an "basic" goal of $400,000 dollars, and offers to further expand the game if higher amounts of funds are achieved, such as improved music and an editor if $1,000,000 bucks are donated.  (Currently funded at $800,000)  By having funding goals that are tiered, a kickstarter could make clear what sorts of things can happen if there is enough money.  This might convince crowds to continue funding up to that point at least.  For example:

$20,000 - Fortune Summoners II
$30,000 - Remake of Fortune Summoners that is integrated into Fortune Summoners II
$50,000 - Carpe Fulgur translates an additional game.

[LilithTome]

Wow, that sounds like a bargain! But... also how you tend to do Kickstarter, and no cheaper than the games have already been before.

That's definitely the sort of thing that has made other Kickstarters more successful than the Gaijinworks example. And there'd definitely be a lot of backers with such a prominent reward. I wonder if Carpe Fulgur, EasyGameStation, and Lizsoft would be comfortable with it, though.

If so, it would certainly be a successful formula. Maybe at the $75 tier and above, of course, add a little bit of those bonus vanity items.

But it's those lower tiers that really sell a Kickstarter. Think about how many people will want it is succeed, when their $5 copy of Recettear relies on it? And don't forget, you already have my guaranteed $500 pledge on it.

[Naryoril]

And after something like Victor Ireland's misadventure with Kickstarter, I'm not sure a "localization kickstarter" could really work.

I'm sure a localization kickstarter would work, but honestly, who the hell is interested in Class of Heroes 2? You'd need to do it with a game people want to play. Some Tales games for example never made it across the pond (Innocence is an example) and i'm also quite sure an Idolm@ster 2 kickstarter would work. Unfortunately both these games are in the hands of Namco Bandai, and i don't think they'd "outsource" the localization of their games.

Maybe some Visual novels from Key (which don't have a fan translation yet) would work as well.

It's not the idea of a "please bring this game over here" kickstarter which is the problem, but the choice of the game. Think about Operation Rainfall, people "pleged" money on Amazon, in such an extent that the games were #1 in Amazon for a while, even though there was no announcment at all.

[LilithTome]

I'm somewhat interested in it. As are I'm sure many other people. Enough to be happy at a chance of opening up a box full of novelty goodies about it. I certainly wouldn't want it to never reach Western shores.

That said, it's not something people are enthusiastic enough about to make a super successful Kickstarter. On the PSP alone it has huge competition. It's a niche jRPG among loads of jRPGs on the PSP to catch people's interest. Not to mention it didn't compare to other Kickstarters as the most amazingly made ever. Making that much so far, $60,000+ in half a month, is pretty darn good for having lesser known and anticipated jRPG on a jRPG loaded platform, a few novelty items up for grabs, and sweet talking jRPG fans.

I think there's reason to assume that a Carpe Fulgur project would do at least as well. And $60,000 is at least a little incentive to make a game, right? I'm wondering if people are worried, instead, that Gaijinworks has poisoned the well. And that another similar project will meet lingering criticisms from Victor Ireland's venture.

I personally doubt it, the Kickstarter craze hasn't outlived it's usefulness. And the situation is totally different. It's not localization, it would be support for creating an entire new game. What game Kickstarters are typically used for. Localization would just be a bonus on the menu. While this is really all the Gaijinworks one has going for it. Not to mention all the other stuff I said. Again, the situation is totally different and I think most people, including game blogs and ect., would recognize this.

And even if Carpe Fulgur were to make a Kickstarter just for localization, I still think the situation would be fairly different. Given Carpe Fulgur didn't make the same mistakes as Gaijinworks.

[David J Prokopetz]

Any investment system should be set up like that of the stock market: if the project fails, both the devs and the investors lose out and if the project succeeds, both the devs and the investors profit. Even risk for all involved.

Kickstarter funding isn't an investment - it's distributed patronage. That's why the higher funding tiers for game projects always have stuff like "get your name in the credits", "receive exclusive memorabilia", and "put your face on a minor NPC"; the real "product" isn't the game itself, but the prestige of being associated with the game.