Working Designs apparently wants to make a comeback.(jRPG Kickstart)

[LilithTome]

I don't know if this is relevant, or possibly overly advertising. But while there have been a few Western RPG maker jRPG style video games, I think this may be the first major jRPG kickstart. If anyone remembers Working Designs, they were a company, much like Carpe Fulgur, that released a lot of jRPGs and thing. Mostly for Sony and Sega systems, though, instead of the PC. Eventually, they sadly died.

But apparently, they are trying to come back as "Gaijinworks". With a Kickstart page. And they're putting more than this game at stake, they're basically setting to make it an example for the viability of the jRPG and physical distribution. So even if you're not super interested in Class of Heroes games, it certainly seems to be a strong vote for the jRPG in general.

Not twisting your arm or trying to advertise something inappropriate or steal fire from Carpe Fulgur or anything. But I thought this a somewhat relevant event. And my personal opinion is one of strong support. I do thing the success of this would do wonders for helping the jRPG genre. Which I do think is relevant to our interests, and to spread the word of. I once said I would pledge $2,000 if it meant bringing Tales of Symphonia to Steam. Well, I meant it. Of course, I don't have that much currently, and I also don't quite care as much about Class of Heroes as that game. But I have pledged more than $250 because I do find the cause quite solid. Reprimand me if you think I am wrong. I don't think I am, though. I think this is one of the first true opportunities to show the industry the the kickstart power of jRPG fans. Of which I assume I am among. And I would not like to squander that.

If you don't think I am wrong, this page might be of interest to you.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1272149684/class-of-heroes-2-deluxe-for-the-psp-system/

Either way, it's an interesting enough of an event to make a thread about, I think. Forgive me if it's not.

(This post would sound a lot more enthusiastic if I didn't fear its forum appropriateness)

[talking_chicken]

For the record, Gaijinworks has been around for a while, though they haven't done anything TOO significant compared to Working Designs since inception. I put in my $60, not so much because this is a game I've been desperately hoping for, but more for the potential that this project succeeding can bring. If they can prove that making an awesome deluxe version for a non-so-well-known JRPG sequel can be financially viable, imagine what could happen with a game that more people want!

I missed out on all of Working Designs's stuff when they were originally released (chalk that up to me growing up mostly with Nintendo consoles), but I enjoyed Alundra when it came out on PSN and now I want to know what a Working Designs deluxe box feels like.

Even if the kickstarter doesn't succeed, apparently there are still plans to release the game digitally, but wouldn't it be something if it did?

[LilithTome]

For the record, Gaijinworks has been around for a while, though they haven't done anything TOO significant compared to Working Designs since inception.

Yeah, I know, I guess I was going for a more flashy title.

I knew that Working Designs was a known name, and that Gaijinworks is relatively unknown because they haven't exactly been active... until.

What a way to pop back into the scene, I say!

Yeah, my feelings pretty well resonate with yours. Glad to see you're a part of it, too. It'd send a very, very nice message to the industry if this succeeds. I wouldn't say I'm desperately hoping for the game. But looking forward to it, nonetheless. Especially with all my bonus stuff. "Not desperately" doesn't mean I'm not heavily looking forward to a nice gigantic box of anime jRPG game goodness flooding my mailbox.

Also, I doubt most SomethingAwful goons would agree(I guess that only popped into my head since SpaceDrake is a Something Awful user. I don't think I have much in common with their culture, to be entirely honest, no offense to SpaceDrake), but I found it a somewhat interesting novelty that Class of Heroes is one of the few jRPGs with actually heavily anthropomorphic or "furry" characters in it. Japanese media doesn't exactly seem to be super fond of such character designs, furries or animal people or whatever you'd call them, as Western cartoon makers. For whatever reason, I'm not sure. Not beyond adding ears and a tail to a girl, at least. It might draw flames to me for saying this, but again, I think it's an interesting novelty about the game since the design is so rare in Japan. I'm not a furry, I just think that variety is the spice of life, you know.

There's also always going to be one of those times when one is in the mood for a super dungeon crawlery dungeon crawler. And it's and itch these two games can definitely scratch. So yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to it in its own ways. It's just no game of the year, or anything. And definitely something that goes well beside Etrian Odyssey copies.

All the more amazing if this Kickstarter can succeed. Not only to "Gaijinworks", but the annals of Kickstarter in video game history. Surely a lot of other companies would take note and possibly start doing the same thing.

I also missed out on a lot of good Working Designs back in the day. Mostly because I was a teenager, depending on parental income instead of my own. That goes for games in general. As a kid, I managed to spend a couple hundred dollars a year on games. Now I often spend that much a month, especially given how much catching up I have to do.

If they can prove that making an awesome deluxe version for a non-so-well-known JRPG sequel can be financially viable, imagine what could happen with a game that more people want!

Indeed. Very well put.

[StarCreator]

I think this article sums up how horrible this Class of Heroes 2 kickstarter really is and why no one should be buying into it.  The fact it even exists is nothing more than sheer greed and is a complete mockery of everything Kickstarter stands for.

tl;dr version: The game already exists and will be coming out even if the kickstarter funding fails.  This is just an attempt to make extra money off Doublefine's wake.

[SilentCaay]

I don't get these Kickstarter requests. You should work first, then get paid. If you can't afford a project, there are always other ways to handle it. A consumer base shouldn't be approached until they at least have the project close enough to a realistic pre-order status, IMO. I love seeing as many Japanese games as possible come to the West, though. Especially if they're on PC.

For the record, I'm not against the entire idea of Kickstarter I just don't think it should be used for commercial purposes. If someone was to do a community project or something then it would be a bit more reasonable but asking people to foot the bill so you can make money isn't reasonable, IMO. "You have to spend money to make money".

[TheSwordUser]

I'm thinking of it as paying in advance. As long as people that pledged certain ammount of money will get their games at release then it's OK I think.
That would be bollocks if huge donators would have to buy the games anyway.
Besides, fan-powered kickstart sounds more reasonable than getting real investors for that (like in case of Open Pandora) or getting a huge-ass loan (at least in this case, if the goal is not met, everyone will get their money back).

EDIT: Oh wait

tl;dr version: The game already exists and will be coming out even if the kickstarter funding fails.  This is just an attempt to make extra money off Doublefine's wake.

For reals? Well, now that you mention that, it really is just about bringing deluxe pack stateside, which is pointless imo.

But kickstarter in itelf isn't that bad. If you don't want to donate for whatever reason, you just don't.

[dorbabil]

I don't get these Kickstarter requests. You should work first, then get paid. If you can't afford a project, there are always other ways to handle it. A consumer base shouldn't be approached until they at least have the project close enough to a realistic pre-order status, IMO. I love seeing as many Japanese games as possible come to the West, though. Especially if they're on PC.

For the record, I'm not against the entire idea of Kickstarter I just don't think it should be used for commercial purposes. If someone was to do a community project or something then it would be a bit more reasonable but asking people to foot the bill so you can make money isn't reasonable, IMO. "You have to spend money to make money".

I disagree.

It's hard to convince an investor that your work will pay off, even when you're a big name in your field (like the guys doing wasteland 2, or doublefine, or epic megagames, for example), and sometimes getting money basically means compromising your vision to succeed.

It's extremely rare that a developer gets to the point that they can get adequate funding and dictate everything about game design that they need to to make the product they want to make. Microfinance is a good way to reach out directly to consumers, and the brilliant thing about kickstarter is that there's limited risk for the initial donors. If you you pledge 100$ to a project you really believe in, but they fail to hit their fundraising goal, you don't pay a cent.

I think this is clearly the wrong way to do a kickstarter, for reasons mentioned above, but there are plenty of big names and no names who are doing it right, and if people are eager to play a certain type of game and there's a kickstarter that pledges to make that game (that would be difficult to finance any other way), what's so wrong with people deciding to spend their money there?

Edit: Actually, I guess even kickstarters like this have a purpose, I agree that it's not quite the same thing as asking someone to fund the development of a title that publishers won't touch.

[LilithTome]

Uh-oh! Did I make a mistake? I have to admit I always wanted to jump on a jRPG themed Kickstarter for once.

And I really wanted to have faith in them and the cause. I have to admit I had some of the same concerns when I first saw it, but less harshly and with optimism.

I figure, as Working Designs literally collapsed, that Gaijinworks was heavily in need of money. And that such an event would do a lot fund future works that they would probably lack just from the sales of Class of Heroes 2.

I am worried for this Kickstarter. As it seems to be as much of an underdog in the Kickstarter realm as the jRPG is in gaming.

Some of y'all are making it sound as if "Gaijinworks" is trying to exploit and take advantage of people merely by drumming up emotions about the jRPG. Surely this can't be the case... can it? Isn't there plenty of reason to assume good faith? They may be a company. And they might not be going about this the best possible way(understatement, that), but I'm fairly certain they would put such money to very good use.

For the record, they're taking steps in the right direction and adding $20 level rewards like apparently is normal(to be honest, I wasn't aware what is normal, the Kickstarter itself made me sign up for the site finally). Hopefully it is not too little too late. But it is surfacing. It's only a soundtrack, which is not the same as a digital copy of the game. But it is an improvement.

They also have included a digital copy with deluxe packs now. There might be a little re-arranging that goes around to make things better. And it's not optimal, but it is an improvement. I think that Victor says what he means and means what he says, to be honest. And I don't think that there is "no reason" to support this. In fact, if this succeeds, it would really show that what Victor said very true. And that jRPG Kickstarters can win, despite odds packed against them.

Edit: They just now added another update, adding more screenshots from the Japanese version of the game. Addressing more of the complaints. They are listening.

[talking_chicken]

I've read through the criticism, but I'm still going to support this out of the potential of what could happen if it succeeds (if it doesn't make the goal no one pays anything and the game will still come out to some degree) but I don't understand their answer to the "why don't you just make a digital download reward".

Because there are production minimums for the Deluxe Pack components. We set the project to less than 7,000 Deluxe Packs to fund, which is a very small run for a portable console game. We need to hit at least that, or the cost per unit to make them increases quickly.  If, for example, we offered digital release packages and we ended up funding with a 50-50 split on digital codes vs deluxe packs, we would actually lose money on the project. It's the same reason you don't see a parallel "regular" PSP box. The market for this project and PSP in general is so small that slicing and dicing it makes it not work.

If we can't get support for less than 7000 Deluxe Packs, there's no way to do it, the project won't fund, and we'll just have a basic localization on Direct Download available and call it a day. I don't want that, and I don't think many people will be satisfied with that once they PLAY Class of Heroes II.   Unfortunately all they have to judge on right now is Class of Heroes 1, and CoH II is NOT that game, it's substantially better.

They want 7000 deluxe packs. If they don't quite get 7000 but make their goal because of digital download sales why can't they just order the 7000 deluxe packs anyway and use the excess stock for other things like giveaways or ultra-limited editions or something? 500k is still a fair chunk of money, and if you get the 500k anyway and still have some extra stock you can use for things why not?

Or even better, why not kickstart an awesome localization job with a lower goal instead of the deluxe packs themselves (and maybe even just put the deluxe pack as a more expensive reward to hamper higher production costs)? I'd consider supporting that, too.

[partial]

tl;dr version: The game already exists and will be coming out even if the kickstarter funding fails.  This is just an attempt to make extra money off Doublefine's wake.

They never said it wasn't. It says specifically the Kickstarter is for funding the Deluxe Edition, whether you buy into that or not is another matter. The project seems to actually be doing reasonably well, at least compared to 'Hardcore shooter project / Takedown' if you want to talk messy Kickstarters, that one certainly was.

That said I have never understood why people like the PSP and hence cannot take part in this even if I wanted to.

[Mokinokaro]

The PSP already is one of the leading platforms for JRPGs, but has bombed terribly outside of Japan.   Class of Heroes simply doesn't stand out enough to be a worthwhile cause.

Something is fishy about this whole setup, if you ask me.   It's not exactly a scam, but it seems a bit scummy and not quite right.