Author Topic: Guide: Arche's Combat Tactics and Methodologies (Spoilerish)  (Read 5739 times)

Rassius

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Guide: Arche's Combat Tactics and Methodologies (Spoilerish)
« on: February 07, 2012, 04:21:55 PM »
After seeing at least a couple topics about people having difficulties with Arche's combat I finally decided to register and post something about the matter.  Things that may be blatantly apparent to me might not be so to others and if I have help to offer then it makes sense to simply supply it.  So, on that note, there were a few things I kept in mind as I played Fortune Summoners:

- Slash is actually Arche's slowest ability by a long shot.  Why would this be?  Because you can lead a Wide Slash while it's much more difficult to lead a Slash.  It's also a mid ranging and mid damaging ability.  This meant to me I rarely used it and its combo variants (more on the combo variants later).  By the end of the game I had gotten so used to Thrusts, Wide Slashes and Arcing Slashes that it became difficult for me to even perform Arche's basic attack.

- Combat is tactical not reactionary.  Playing "slower" greatly helps you in basically all regards.  Getting your combos going and more importantly using the right abilities at the right time will make Fortune Summoners a much, much easier game.

- Enemies are "smart" but you can still use that against them.  An enemy who jumps to avoid an attack and doesn't have a Downstab is a flying piñata.  Simply Arcing Slash till the candy falls out.

- Get your initiation moves in order.  You have many initiation moves that each start a fight a different way: Roll + Slash > Combo Wide Slash for a wide gap initiate to a running dash + Arcing Slash to start on pesky airborne flyers or even Leaping Slash and Downstab for *unblockable damage right off the bat.

- Auto guard is your friend. It is probably one of the easiest toggles to make the game much more “user friendly”.  Fortune Summoners punishes players that don’t think about their combat tactics and this can help buy you the time you need if you don’t necessarily have the best reflexes.

- There are 4 difficulty levels and “Hard” actually means just that.  This comes from a player that usually plays games at max difficulty because “Normal” usually translates to nap time (Sometimes “Hard” does as well).

- Practice makes perfect.  Being able to use all your abilities effectively is perhaps the greatest hurdle you have although, it’s one thing to be able to use them against air and quite another to combo them against even the most basic of enemies.  A great practice area is the upper loft where Arche lives as there aren’t any doors and the ground is even.

Phew that took quite awhile.  Think I’m going to stop here and come back to lay out all of Arche's abilities.  After that, I think tips on certain monsters and maybe in general will be after so bear with me.

Stay tuned for (much) more.

Edit: I r gud at speeling.    
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 10:18:39 AM by Rassius »

Ultimate Chicken

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Re: Guide: Arche's Combat Tactics and Methodologies (Spoilerish)
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2012, 04:38:30 AM »
Quote
- Slash is actually Arche's slowest ability by a long shot.  Why would this be?  Because you can lead a Wide Slash while it's much more difficult to lead a Slash.  It's also a mid ranging and mid damaging ability.  This meant to me I rarely used it and its combo variants (more on the combo variants later).  By the end of the game I had gotten so used to Thrusts, Wide Slashes and Arching Slashes that it became difficult for me to even perform Arche's basic attack.

If it's the Stand Slash you're talking about, I disagree only in that F-Atk is too slow a riposite move, and enemies will ALWAYS trade hits with this if they don't already outprioritize Arche. U-Atk is similarly situational, because against the things it's supposed to be used on (fliers) will also trade hits with it, and unless you dash it has no horizontal range.

That, and Jp. Atk is actually pretty effective against airborne opponents, once you learn not to do the fighting game newb thing, and realize your jumping slash is controlled by attack button *release*. The bog standard slash will naturally chain from a connected jump slash too, even if you haven't learnt to chain from it yet, because your land animation actually cancels the recovery lag. <_<


ORYLY

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Re: Guide: Arche's Combat Tactics and Methodologies (Spoilerish)
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2012, 05:59:19 AM »
One reason why arcing slashes get used more at the end of the game is that mirror image takes care of its range problem and you face a LOT of fliers in the last dungeon. On ground enemies, getting a solid hit with it also starts up an air juggle combo, which mirror image also improves.

KholdStare88

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Re: Guide: Arche's Combat Tactics and Methodologies (Spoilerish)
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2012, 08:40:28 PM »
I do fairly well with Arche. It's the enemies on slopes that give me the trouble. A slime on a down slope is particularly bad, since it can tentacle diagonally at you and aside from down stab your other attacks don't really hit.

SilentCaay

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Re: Guide: Arche's Combat Tactics and Methodologies (Spoilerish)
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2012, 04:31:01 AM »
If it's the Stand Slash you're talking about, I disagree only in that F-Atk is too slow a riposite move, and enemies will ALWAYS trade hits with this if they don't already outprioritize Arche. U-Atk is similarly situational, because against the things it's supposed to be used on (fliers) will also trade hits with it, and unless you dash it has no horizontal range.

With some enemies it's true that you can't use Wide Slash that effectively but some enemies get absolutely owned by it. Slimes in particular you can just spam Wide Slash over and over. If you don't have any other enemies bugging you and if you don't miss your timing you can have them pinned down the whole time. Those fox guys with the swords (can't remember their name) can also be pinned down that way but they're a bit more feisty so it's harder to get the chain started but once you do they can be pinned down. Once in awhile they break out of it but it's still pretty effective.

---
Edit: I forgot to add that Arche takes a step forward with Wide Slash so when you get to the point of encroaching on the Slime's sprite, switch to the U+Atk Arch Slash for one turn to push them back otherwise you'll start missing when you get too far inside their sprite. That's how you keep them pinned down.
---

Taking your time is also good advice. For example, I had some trouble with Mothbees at first until I just stopped... Literally. If you stand still they "stand" still as well and will just shoot stingers from a set distance. Duck, jump or block the stingers but otherwise remain stationary. Once they start flaying toward you dropping their sleep dust, smack them in the face with your sword. It cancels the dust and they fly back to stinger-shooting distance. If the situation is risky when they're flying toward you, just jump over them and try again next time. This tactic gets a little tricky when there are 3 of them but if you take your time it can be done with minimal risk.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 07:31:49 PM by SilentCaay »

Ultimate Chicken

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Re: Guide: Arche's Combat Tactics and Methodologies (Spoilerish)
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2012, 09:21:20 PM »
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Those fox guys with the swords (can't remember their name)

I think they are the Kobolds, and these get easier once Arche learns U, F Attack, too, because that particular attack *ignores guarding*, and you can perform it again, in the same direction, to carry you out of their reach for a bit. Might be better than pinning them down with an infinite block loop, especially when you get to places where a Myconid and 2 Kobolds will rush the team at the same time.

(And don't forget F, D Attack. That's blockable and won't carry Arche as far, but can be used in the same situation, at least.)

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Once they start flaying toward you dropping their sleep dust, smack them in the face with your sword. It cancels the dust and they fly back to stinger-shooting distance.

I should put a big "Be Careful!" note here: Sleep/Poison/Confusion fields have a collision box. Doesn't matter if you've cancelled the ability, you may be put to sleep/poison/confusion by a dissipating field, which frankly, is rather embarrassing. >.>

AnimeZer0

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Re: Guide: Arche's Combat Tactics and Methodologies (Spoilerish)
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2012, 11:39:55 PM »
Kobolds are easy as hell, block > wide slash > block > wide slash | repeat, they don't even hit me once that way(in 1v1 against them that is)

Ultimate Chicken

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Re: Guide: Arche's Combat Tactics and Methodologies (Spoilerish)
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2012, 12:03:39 AM »
Yeah, but you don't cleanhit them back either, so it becomes this near-infinite loop until one of us messes up. Like I said I can't reposite with wide slash. Oh well, at least I usually deal more damage than they do on block...

Luane

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Re: Guide: Arche's Combat Tactics and Methodologies (Spoilerish)
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2012, 12:10:09 AM »
Yeah, but you don't cleanhit them back either, so it becomes this near-infinite loop until one of us messes up. Like I said I can't reposite with wide slash. Oh well, at least I usually deal more damage than they do on block...
Back the Kobold against a wall, wait till it jumps, then Arcing -> Thrust -> Leaping.

AnimeZer0

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Re: Guide: Arche's Combat Tactics and Methodologies (Spoilerish)
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2012, 12:40:24 AM »
Yeah, but you don't cleanhit them back either, so it becomes this near-infinite loop until one of us messes up. Like I said I can't reposite with wide slash. Oh well, at least I usually deal more damage than they do on block...
I constantly cleanhit them by blocking then the moment they hit your block doing a wide slash

Rassius

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Re: Guide: Arche's Combat Tactics and Methodologies (Spoilerish)
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2012, 10:43:18 AM »
So I post up about 1/3 of what I intended to write only to find myself losing the better part of a week instead of typing up that ability list I said I would.  I think I count as a great guide write /sarcasm.  Anyways at least I came back to a thread with quite a lot of good feedback that challenges people to brush up on their skills and helps the players who aren't quite as good at fighting games.  My thanks are certainly in order.

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If it's the Stand Slash you're talking about, I disagree only in that F-Atk is too slow a riposite move, and enemies will ALWAYS trade hits with this if they don't already outprioritize Arche. U-Atk is similarly situational, because against the things it's supposed to be used on (fliers) will also trade hits with it, and unless you dash it has no horizontal range.

Thrust is the ability you're looking for when it comes to Riposte moves (when each of you are guarding attack after attack).  Thrust or Double Thrust easily starts a combo that allows for the step in and extended range of the Wide Slash attack.  I didn't say that Wide Slash was slower than Slash I said it was "slower" meaning you abuse it's excess range to make up for it being the slowest attack.  Arcing Slash's range can be made up using the the Dash + Arcing initiate which is generally incredibly easy to do as long as you've got a Dash actually going.

Quote
I do fairly well with Arche. It's the enemies on slopes that give me the trouble. A slime on a down slope is particularly bad, since it can tentacle diagonally at you and aside from down stab your other attacks don't really hit.

Indeed low ground can be a big tactical advantage not only for your enemys but for you as well.  Best just to swap positions when that's the case.

Got some of the basic abilities done.  I'll have to post at at later date for some more/the rest.  Arche sure has a lot of them or maybe i'm just a really, really slow typer -.-;.

Arche’s abilities:

Slash - Your basic attack and “slowest”.  Later abilities provide you with a way to combo your other basic attacks into it.  This is a mid range and mid damage ability.  Useful in the middle of a combo to add additional damage though you might need partner help to keep the combo going to perform the otherwise very slow attack.

Thrust - Your fastest and least damaging attack.   Thrust is extremely useful for breaking a guard or starting a combo.  It’s also useful for breaking a combo breaker (an enemy attacking you mid combo).  Later in the game being able to flawlessly weave this in to any combo you are doing is essential.

Wide Slash - Your slowest and most damaging attack.  Wide Slash also has almost polearm range and allows you to step in and keep your combo going.  Wide Slash is an utterly invaluable ability and it is probably my favorite and most used.  I almost never use Slash because of this ability.

Arcing Slash - Your most basic anti-air attack and a fairly damaging slash which is good for starting a juggle.  Dash + Arcing Slash is perhaps one of the best early openers for aerial targets.

Roll - Quick mobility is incredibly useful for getting behind a target to perform a Snap Thrust.  I also believe this move gives you a single immunity frame at the *very* beginning of the roll.  Though performing such to avoid an attack with any measure of reliability was well beyond my level of skill.

Cartwheel - It’s like a Roll only backwards.  All kidding aside this can be used in certain situations to avoid impending doom (like low jump height Downstabs).

Downstab - *Unblockable damage ability mainly used for destroying guards and pinning annoying flyers to the ground to perform land locked combos.   

*There is a single enemy in the game that can block even unblockable attacks.

Resetter

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Re: Guide: Arche's Combat Tactics and Methodologies (Spoilerish)
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2012, 05:32:06 PM »
Having a bit of a problem doing the Snap Slash ( < then X ). Even with Snap Thrust ( < + X ) disabled, I can't seem to do it! What does it look like? Any pointers?

changtau2005

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Re: Guide: Arche's Combat Tactics and Methodologies (Spoilerish)
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2012, 06:30:54 PM »
I might be wrong, but Snap Slash is just a normal slash, but backwards. You don't need to disable snap thrust - just press the keys slower (around a third of a second apart) and she'll do snap slash. If Arche's level is high enough to know snap slash, try executing it. If you manage to slash behind you, that's snap slash already. If you try it with level 1 Arche who doesn't have the skill, she can't do that move.