Localization: Why We Do What We Do

[SpaceDrake]

And so, after months of waiting, SpaceDrake finally gets off his bum and uses Der Dräkblög for its original purpose: discussing the theory of localization and providing notes about some of the larger "changes" made to Recettear's script in its transition to English. Oh, and maybe there's a little something else of no great importance in there too.

But maybe you can judge that for yourselves.

[TheSwordUser]

My overall reaction through that post.
Wow its long.
Blablabla oh so that was changed, cool.
Thank god it wasn't left at "Tiers"
Oh god thats one hell of a post but still interesting.
Oh, whats that link for.
WHAT.
WHAT.
HOLYSH!T DOWNLOADING.

[locklear93]

providing notes about some of the larger "changes" made to Recettear's script in its transition to English.

At last.  I'm part of the audience that likely usually gives you (and Aksys, and NISA, and MangaGamer, and JAST...) a hard time: the kind who prefer very close to a straight translation.  I don't disagree with your comments about suspension of disbelief being harder that way, but I'm able to, and I enjoy learning about the Japanese idioms and puns, things that are lost no matter how careful you are, with a localization in CF's style.  I'm the kind of person who likes having to pause anime to read a long note that's only on screen for two frames.  Your post, therefore, was incredibly valuable to me.  Wait, what?  Not infuriating?  No.  You're basically doing what I want, backwards: I don't care if I get notes explaining the lack of changes, or explaining the changes--but I want the notes.  Providing translation notes is something I particularly like about MangaGamer.

Anyway, great post, great read, and glad to see it.  The one suggestion I might make is to consider prepping something like this in parallel with the actual loc work, and providing it at release.  I'd swear to buy all of CFs releases if you did, but looking at EGS games and Fortune Summoners, for the time being I'm unable to pretend I'd do otherwise.

[maverick375]

Interesting bits!

While I have enough interest in Japanese culture to enjoy learning the smaller bits, nuances, and in-jokes (something ADV did marvelously in some of their anime, in the form of an additional subtitle track), I can't complain about Recettear. The writing was engaging and fluid. There was no start-stop-start motion in the text action as many (big name) translated games have. It was natural and effective. Cutesy and serious, funny and dramatic, often in the same scene. As a gamer, I'd rather like to play a game than study it. Perhaps your system will change someday in that you choose to have "director's notes" or "original story notes" as an add-in, but for the moment, know there's really nothing wrong with your method, and your sales numbers prove that.

[DarkAgent]

tl;dr, I only really read the "what we changed" part. It's a nice post, but...

I think you should be careful what you change and how much you changed. I mean, you seemed to have changed a little TOO much of the script, from what it looks. I'm not saying you have to be 100% straight, but you can't be 1% straight either. I know it fits the "tone" of the game and all, but still.

In before over sensitive posters screaming at me and bombarding me with emoticons.

EDIT: I *do* prefer Tielle's localized name, however. Tier(s) sounds too close to Tear, anyway.

[blizgerg]

Happiness!!!

Chantelise available on the 29th? But, I want an Umpa Lumpa NOOOOOOWWWWWW!!!!!!
Sadness.

Finished the demo and can't wait.

[dkellis]

When I was still studying to do what I do, I thought that in any field where Words Are Important, be it translation/localization or news editing or whatnot, it was a given that there would be at least two people looking at a given piece of work to check that it says what it's supposed to say.

When I actually got into the workforce, I discovered that for some reason, this is considered a luxury rather than a matter of course. The expectation seems to be that one person is indeed supposed to be an expert in two (or more) sports, to use your analogy.

It's bizarre and occasionally infuriating, which is why I really appreciate how CF sticks with the sensible method of script-checking.

I admit I was hoping for more elaboration on Tear's use of "Merde", which I've noticed is a significant talking point among forums and reviews, and not always positively. The existing given reason of "merde" sounding like "mattaku" doesn't really satisfy, especially when it seems to be inserted in ways that don't entirely sound natural. (The bit in the Debt Payment Ending comes to mind.)

Also, something I noticed in the writeup about Recette:

She’d practically invent affirmative responses on the spot; she couldn’t not just stick to one answer.

Unpacking: "Recette could not" "not just stick to one answer."

Interpreting the first part: "Recette is unable to" "not just stick to one answer."

Interpreting the second part: "Recette is unable to" "use many answers."

Double negatives are my bane.

[SpaceDrake]

The one suggestion I might make is to consider prepping something like this in parallel with the actual loc work, and providing it at release.  

Well, the main reason I like to do it like this is to make sure we don't give out spoilers ahead of time. Like, Griff's mere existence is a bit of a spoiler, and we didn't want to ruin that out of the gate. So we'll probably continue to do a staggered release of notes for our games - the wait won't be NINE MONTHS like it was with Recettear, but I want to wait a few weeks before posting the notes for Chantelise, as there'll be spoilers in there too.

And I do intend to publish the notes for Chantelise relatively quickly, as we made one decision that may spark... debate among people familiar with the original script. In general the notes won't be as big, though, since the script isn't as long in general and we were actually a little more "straight" with the script this time around. Most of the big diction changes went into Chante's mouth, really.

When I was still studying to do what I do, I thought that in any field where Words Are Important, be it translation/localization or news editing or whatnot, it was a given that there would be at least two people looking at a given piece of work to check that it says what it's supposed to say.

When I actually got into the workforce, I discovered that for some reason, this is considered a luxury rather than a matter of course. The expectation seems to be that one person is indeed supposed to be an expert in two (or more) sports, to use your analogy.

It's bizarre and occasionally infuriating, which is why I really appreciate how CF sticks with the sensible method of script-checking.

It drives us batty at times, too, which is exactly why we have the system we do in place and I have no intention of changing it any time soon.

I admit I was hoping for more elaboration on Tear's use of "Merde", which I've noticed is a significant talking point among forums and reviews, and not always positively. The existing given reason of "merde" sounding like "mattaku" doesn't really satisfy, especially when it seems to be inserted in ways that don't entirely sound natural. (The bit in the Debt Payment Ending comes to mind.)

I may do a Notes Extension post here soon, as there were a few more minor things I glossed over/left out because the post was becoming a novel. :V I do still stand by my choice on the "merde" thing, though.

[tech7]

Thanks for the post. The stuff about your work is really interessting, but imo you should have posted it earlier. Probably it would have been ebst if you had split that article. The stuff about Recette and Tear does not contains huge spoilers and could have been posted relatively short after release and  later the stuff with spoilers. This is better for keeping interest than one enormous blog way later.

But to be honest after I saw that post I did first do a search for Chantelise, before I bothered reading the rest Looking forward to the  29th

[QC]

Most of the big diction changes went into Chante's mouth, really.

Just from the demo I can tell that much...

I'm assuming she spoke extremely casually in Japanese (which I've heard in anime and can kind of hear in my head), perhaps even with a certain dialect. Either way, that's the kind of thing that constitutes what you were describing as "voice" and - if nothing else - it gives the character... character. It's less like reading dialogue and more like listening to people just talk. Except... you're listening with... your eyes...

[DarkAgent]

Umm, can anyone give an example of what Chante says in localized version and what she says in japanese version?

[Geglash]

“Tiers” is actually pronounced with an effectively silent s (much like “Paris”), but I was fairly certain that most Americans would try to pronounce it with a hard S, meaning it’d seem like her name no longer matched up with the voiceover still in the game

Fun fact: even without your brainstorming, the "Third" reference would have still worked since with a hard S, it sounds like "Tierce" which is pretty much the feminine form of "Tiers" in french (yes, it's uselessly complex).

Now I feel like a grammar nazi since that post is the reason why I finally made an account on your forums, after perhaps a year of lurking around...

[jdietz]

For "Capitalism Ho!" what she says in Japanese is a MUCH more mundane, "I wonder how much I should sell this for" or "I wonder how much I should pay for this"

[Bhau]

This is pretty interesting (I skimmed the later half out of fear of spoilers. Sorry). I'm a subtitle and anti-localisation advocate, but this is by and far the best justified and most reasonable thing I've read on the subject.
However, I'd disagree with the point about fansubs, notes and immersion. In a text and still image based medium, it's largely up to the text itself to provide said immersion. As such I can understand where you're coming from, even if it rankles somewhat.

In a moving image (...mostly. This isn't a commentary on animation quality.) and sound based medium like anime, a large part of the immersion and establishing what you refer to as voice comes from the audio and image themselves. Even with no knowledge of Japanese and no subtitles, one can pick up on tones of voice, emotion, verbal ticks etc. The rather feeble grasp of Japanese that many avid follows of the anime scene have will extend that to sentence structure, a few words and puns and understanding cultural jokes if literally translated.
I find that subtitles for moving image mediums are, and should be, a reference - you look to them for the meaning of the dialogue and you get the immersion and voice from the video. A disparity between things (such as localisation of jokes and honorifics, outright changing dialogue, using different names for characters from the audio track etc) moves your focus to considering the subtitles themselves, and makes you question them from then on. Which of course seriously damages the enjoyment of the show. As for translation notes, as long as they're not massively intrusive (Looking at you, ADV's version of Pani Poni Dash) they provide a deeper reference for those who want it, or can be ignored. Obviously screen space is a premium, so things like separate subtitle tracks for this is ideal simply because taking up space can distract from the video.

That being said I'm basically saying that noticeable localisation is immersion-breaking, and that becomes more relevant as someone's proficiency with Japanese increases. By the same token, they then becomes less dependant on the subtitles. As such it's more an issue with obvious, out of character and meaning-changing localisations. Which you're advocating against.
So good for you.

[kwakstar]

Subtitle advocate.

And I thought I'd seen all different kinds of crazies before.